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 Back in Argonnessen (for the moment)

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PostSubject: Re: Back in Argonnessen (for the moment)   Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:43 pm

Six of Six wrote:
Now a true rogue (gnome) plan would be to convince Aarazthourus to attack Kallionaxis. Then we come in to clean up the mess, like was done to us - twice.

Nameless wrote:
Actually, it would be easier to do it the other way around. Since Kall is willing to go after other dragons if they have something she wants. Of course we'd need bait. I think the most valuable thing we've got is probably Nameless's Runestaff of power. But that might not be the best item to hand over.

Then there's also the issue that we as a collective, have a bluff check inferior to that of a a small child with chocolate on it's face claiming it didn't eat a candy bar.

Very Happy

Honar would confirm that based on what is known of Kallionaxis, simply flying over her territory on a bunch of magical steeds is certain to get you attacked. Getting her to attack another dragon would take a lot more time, since she'd probably spend some significant time studying the other dragon (and its belongings) before attacking it, whereas with intruders (esp. apparently magic-loaded ones) in her territory she'd likely just attack.

Quote :
I'm not sensing any enthusiasm for going after a dragon with anything other than a full load out, so let's assume we go the day after the divinations.

Makes sense. I'll post some info about the divinations in the next couple of days. On that subject, are you trying a scrying?
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PostSubject: Re: Back in Argonnessen (for the moment)   Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:04 pm

Admin wrote:
Makes sense. I'll post some info about the divinations in the next couple of days. On that subject, are you trying a scrying?

Not on the dragon. Nameless will do a Discern Location to pin down the location of the dragon, but it's too likely to notice the sensor. We can use a master earth to get close to the lair.
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PostSubject: Re: Back in Argonnessen (for the moment)   Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:51 am

Nameless wrote:
Not on the dragon. Nameless will do a Discern Location to pin down the location of the dragon, but it's too likely to notice the sensor. We can use a master earth to get close to the lair.

Actually, to use a Discern Location, you need to have seen the creature or have some item belonging to it. And even when the spell works it doesn't help with teleporting and such, since it informs you of the location but doesn't actually let you see it.

Anyway, it's not necessary here, since Honar and Prine have enough information about the dragon's location. They can give you a good enough description of a landmark near or within Kallionaxis' area for you to pull off a Greater Teleport. Master Earth won't work, since that can only take someone to a spot that they've seen.
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PostSubject: Re: Back in Argonnessen (for the moment)   Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:05 am

Six of Six wrote:
Now a true rogue (gnome) plan would be to convince Aarazthourus to attack Kallionaxis. Then we come in to clean up the mess, like was done to us - twice.

Nameless wrote:
Actually, it would be easier to do it the other way around. Since Kall is willing to go after other dragons if they have something she wants. Of course we'd need bait. I think the most valuable thing we've got is probably Nameless's Runestaff of power. But that might not be the best item to hand over.

Then there's also the issue that we as a collective, have a bluff check inferior to that of a a small child with chocolate on it's face claiming it didn't eat a candy bar.

Twas a joke from the start. However it would be amusing for us disquised as goblins trying to convince Aarazthoorus to attack Kallionaxis. Actually we could just meet with either of them and have Luna attack their minds directly. Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: Back in Argonnessen (for the moment)   Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:16 pm

Shil, is the dragon near a body of water?

We may well need spells for operating underwater if that's the case. Water Breathing is Druid/Wiz 3 and Freedom of Movement is a good idea anyway to prevent grappling.

Bronze Dragons are immune to electricity so Stun Ray won't work against it. Since it is likely to have relatively few HP (compared to Xaggy) Power Word Stun or Power Word Blindness is an option. But probably best used after it's been pounded on a bit given the 150 and 200 HP limits.

It does have SR, so Korm and Luna should both prep at least one "Assay resistance". We probably shouldn't need it, but it should guarantee penetrating it's SR and it's a swift or immediate action, so it doesn't hurt to cast it.

It's probably a good idea for someone to have a True Seeing up. Just in case the Dragon uses illusions or disguises.

Animal shapes (druid 8 ) - Might be useful for approaching the dragon's lair if we want to scout things out/ambush it.

http://srd.plush.org/spellsAtoB.html#animal-shapes

Nameless is going to need to lead off with a Dimentional Anchor. So it can't tport or dimdoor away. Probably quickened and paired with a Greater Dispel. He can toss out the AR next round if he starts doing targeted spells. He'll have up either a Greater Arcane Sight or Analyze Dwomer up so he'll know what if any spells it has up and what the GDMs bring down. Korm and Luna should probably have 2 GDMs as well.

We're going to want some Greater Air Elementals to help prevent the Dragon from fleeing by Air. Might need some Water elementals likewise. I'm thinking we are going to want something expendable grappling the dragon to restrict it's movement. Since she gets the best elementals, it might be a good thing for Luna to do this for her first action.

Korm will probably want to lead off with a GDM as well depending on what Nameless brings down/and or it has up.
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PostSubject: Re: Back in Argonnessen (for the moment)   Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:57 pm

Nameless wrote:
Shil, is the dragon near a body of water?

Yup. From what's known of Kallionaxis, it seems that her realm is built around a small range of hills, near the middle of which is a giant lake. She likely has her lair in the hills beside the lake or possibly underground, or maybe even underwater.
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PostSubject: Re: Back in Argonnessen (for the moment)   Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:11 am

Nameless wrote:
Shil, is the dragon near a body of water?

We may well need spells for operating underwater if that's the case. Water Breathing is Druid/Wiz 3 and Freedom of Movement is a good idea anyway to prevent grappling.

Bronze Dragons are immune to electricity so Stun Ray won't work against it. Since it is likely to have relatively few HP (compared to Xaggy) Power Word Stun or Power Word Blindness is an option. But probably best used after it's been pounded on a bit given the 150 and 200 HP limits.

It does have SR, so Korm and Luna should both prep at least one "Assay resistance". We probably shouldn't need it, but it should guarantee penetrating it's SR and it's a swift or immediate action, so it doesn't hurt to cast it.

It's probably a good idea for someone to have a True Seeing up. Just in case the Dragon uses illusions or disguises.

Animal shapes (druid 8 ) - Might be useful for approaching the dragon's lair if we want to scout things out/ambush it.

http://srd.plush.org/spellsAtoB.html#animal-shapes

Nameless is going to need to lead off with a Dimentional Anchor. So it can't tport or dimdoor away. Probably quickened and paired with a Greater Dispel. He can toss out the AR next round if he starts doing targeted spells. He'll have up either a Greater Arcane Sight or Analyze Dwomer up so he'll know what if any spells it has up and what the GDMs bring down. Korm and Luna should probably have 2 GDMs as well.

We're going to want some Greater Air Elementals to help prevent the Dragon from fleeing by Air. Might need some Water elementals likewise. I'm thinking we are going to want something expendable grappling the dragon to restrict it's movement. Since she gets the best elementals, it might be a good thing for Luna to do this for her first action.

Korm will probably want to lead off with a GDM as well depending on what Nameless brings down/and or it has up.

Good Stuff
We will have to gauge the attention(?) level of the group when we meet Sunday. Too many glassly eye stares and we might have to go all blast/bang tactics.
Blast/bang: Korm, Luna and Nameless cast a high dice damage spell and quicken a 15d6 damage spell, thats 90+d6 in round one. Korm and Gareth close on the same round. Second round K and G hit it. The caster can blast again depending on if K and G are in the blast area. There is a lot of problems with this but it can be enacted with miminum attention(?) on our part.

(?) This isn't the right word, but I am without thesaurus


Last edited by Six of Six on Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Back in Argonnessen (for the moment)   Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:21 am

Six of Six wrote:
Korm and Gareth close on the same round. Second round K and G hit it.

Speaking of plans (Very Happy:D:D), don't forget that Honar and Prine will be with you. The former, being focused on mounted combat and using a lance, would especially prefer a chance to hit the dragon with a charge attack. Prine, on the other hand, will be looking to flank and sneak attack.

Divination info to follow later this morning.
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PostSubject: Re: Back in Argonnessen (for the moment)   Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:28 am

Six of Six wrote:
Good Stuff
We will have to gauge the attention(?) level of the group when we meet Sunday. Too many glassly eye stares and we might have to go all blast/bang tactics.
Blast/bang: Korm, Luna and Nameless cast a high dice damage spell and quicken a 15d6 damage spell, thats 90+d6 in round one. Korm and Gareth close on the same round. Second round K and G hit it. The caster can blast again depending on if K and G are in the blast area. There is a lot of problems with this but it can be enacted with miminum attention(?) on our part.

(?) This isn't the right word, but I am with thesaurus

Unless the Spell Compendium has a spell they can use, the only >10d6 attack spells the Druids have are Firestorm (full round casting) and Fire Seeds. Fire Seeds ought to be very effective, given the pitiful touch AC of the dragon, but I'm guessing it's going to have that Scintillating Scales spell that makes it's Nat Armor count as a deflection bonus. So it's touch AC is likely to be out the wazoo. Got to figure on it having a Greater Mage armor and a Shield for another +10 on top of that.

They can empower a flamestrike to get up to the 15d6 and quicken a regular one though, but...

While Nameless has a wide choice of damage types, Korm and Luna are pretty much restricted to Fire and electricity. Given that the dragon is immune to electricity and fire is one of the most common energy types, we've got to assume it's going to have Prot Energy fire up.

In short, I'm guessing we're really going to have to knock down some defenses first before we can do much. But Nameless SHOULD know what if any spells it's got up, so we can change plans accordingly.

Shil, can Prine fly on his own or will he need a spell for that?
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PostSubject: Re: Back in Argonnessen (for the moment)   Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:57 am

Divination info:

Gareth's Divination:

"Fear not the breath of Kallionaxis nor her claws and fangs, but beware her spells. Fight her in the open skies or on the ground, but keep her from her lair, where she can grow most puissant with time."


Nameless' Vision:

"The loredrake lairs in the earth and beneath the waters, but she climbs the mountain and rides the air. She commands lightning and thunder, fire and ice, the burning of acid and the touch of death, but greater than them is her greed and her fear. She watches the skies and the ground, fearing both the Ring of Siberys above and the Dragon Below, fearing apocalypse from beyond the spaces of Eberron and from within its bowels."

Additional info: Honar mentions, when told of the Vision, that loredrake is a term used about some dragons who take on sovereign archetypes (where they attempt to emulate one among the dragon sovereigns, who have analogies to the deities of Khorvaire). Loredrakes are dragons who seek knowledge, esp. of magic, and they display greater spellcasting proficiency at the expense of physical strength. Such dragons also usually focus on arcane magic at the expense of clerical spells.

* * * * *

I believe Nameless was going to be doing a Contact Other Plane too. If so, what would be the questions?
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PostSubject: Re: Back in Argonnessen (for the moment)   Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:06 am

Nameless wrote:

While Nameless has a wide choice of damage types, Korm and Luna are pretty much restricted to Fire and electricity. Given that the dragon is immune to electricity and fire is one of the most common energy types, we've got to assume it's going to have Prot Energy fire up.

In short, I'm guessing we're really going to have to knock down some defenses first before we can do much. But Nameless SHOULD know what if any spells it's got up, so we can change plans accordingly.

Shil, can Prine fly on his own or will he need a spell for that?

There are two ways to bring down a prot fire spell, dispell it or hit it with 30+ dice. Since the casters can bring so many dice on a single damage type, overwhelming a defense is an option. It has been for a while, I just didn't appreciate it. If the dragon is immune to fire or has 14th lvl resist energy up blasting with fire is less effective. As far as the range touch attack, targetting ray.

Given the divination info we could just expain Xoriat will come here and eat her if she doesn't help.

Do we know the alinements of the dragons? It sound like Shil has spent too much time on K. With goals and history developed we might get more buy talking to K.
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PostSubject: Re: Back in Argonnessen (for the moment)   Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:44 am

Six of Six wrote:
Nameless wrote:

While Nameless has a wide choice of damage types, Korm and Luna are pretty much restricted to Fire and electricity. Given that the dragon is immune to electricity and fire is one of the most common energy types, we've got to assume it's going to have Prot Energy fire up.

In short, I'm guessing we're really going to have to knock down some defenses first before we can do much. But Nameless SHOULD know what if any spells it's got up, so we can change plans accordingly.

Shil, can Prine fly on his own or will he need a spell for that?

There are two ways to bring down a prot fire spell, dispell it or hit it with 30+ dice. Since the casters can bring so many dice on a single damage type, overwhelming a defense is an option. It has been for a while, I just didn't appreciate it. If the dragon is immune to fire or has 14th lvl resist energy up blasting with fire is less effective. As far as the range touch attack, targetting ray.

Given the divination info we could just expain Xoriat will come here and eat her if she doesn't help.

If it has that spell that makes it's natural armor count as a deflection bonus, then her touch AC is going to be very high. Targeting Ray would only give a +5 to hit it, but it can't hurt. Question is, is it worth Nameless burning an action or a quickened spell to toss it out?

Given that she's likely to have multiple defensive spells up and that Flamestrike is only half fire damage/half holy. Trying to blow through the Prot Energy doesn't strike me as effective as trying to dispel it's defenses first. Even though it's going to require some decent rolling. I figure it's going to be at least a 13th lv caster (so it will be within spitting distance of us in terms of spell levels) w/t Practiced spell caster, for a caster level of 17 or no more than 18 (IIRC, number of hd is limit for benefit from Practiced Spellcaster).

Also, given what we're being told about her lair, we are going to want to make sure she can't retreat to there.

Nameless can put up a Globe of invulnerability which would hedge out up to 4th lv spells. But it is immobile.

***************************
CoP Questions

1) What is the highest Valance spell she can cast (IE. Does she get 7th 8th lv Spells)
2) Is her Caster level (what ever the terminology is) greater, lesser or equal to mine when I manifest my aspect.
3) Is her Caster level (what ever the terminology is) greater, lesser or equal to Korm and Luna when they use their beads of Karma.
4) Can she cast the spell Xaggy used to buff his touch AC.
5) Can she use the spell to change the energy type of her breath weapon.
6) Can she make her spells unusually difficult to dispel.
7) What is her favorite attack spell.
Cool In what way does her Sanctum make her more powerful as a caster.

Do you guys think it's worth burning a Vision on her lair?
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PostSubject: Re: Back in Argonnessen (for the moment)   Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:27 pm

Nameless wrote:
CoP Questions

Nice questions. Here you go:

1) What is the highest Valance spell she can cast (IE. Does she get 7th 8th lv Spells) A: 7th
2) Is her Caster level (whatever the terminology) greater, lesser or equal to mine when I manifest my aspect. A: Greater
3) Is her CL (whatever the terminology) greater, lesser or equal to Korm & Luna when they use their beads of Karma. A: Greater
4) Can she cast the spell Xaggy used to buff his touch AC? A: Donít know.
5) Can she use the spell to change the energy type of her breath weapon? A: Donít know.
6) Can she make her spells unusually difficult to dispel? A: No.
7) What is her favorite attack spell? A: Reciprocal Gyre
Cool In what way does her Sanctum make her more powerful as a caster? Irrelevant.

You can ask another one instead of the 8th question, since Contact Other Plane can only get one-word answers and that wouldn't be able to deal with such a question.

Quote :
Do you guys think it's worth burning a Vision on her lair?

From what you've been told, her lair wouldn't count as an important enough place for a Legend Lore to help.

Six of Six wrote:
Do we know the alinements of the dragons? It sound like Shil has spent too much time on K. With goals and history developed we might get more buy talking to K.

Very Happy

Your call, as ever, but I think some people would rather just kill her. And no, you don't know her alignment yet. You're pretty sure she's not good, however.
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PostSubject: Re: Back in Argonnessen (for the moment)   Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:07 pm

Admin wrote:
You can ask another one instead of the 8th question, since Contact Other Plane can only get one-word answers and that wouldn't be able to deal with such a question.

8 ) Can she maximize a Reciprocal Gyre?
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PostSubject: Re: Back in Argonnessen (for the moment)   Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:13 pm

Nameless wrote:
8 ) Can she maximize a Reciprocal Gyre?

A: Yes

(Note: Considering how sorcerers work in this campaign, that means she can cast 7th lvl spells or higher)
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PostSubject: Re: Back in Argonnessen (for the moment)   Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:59 am

Nameless wrote:
Shil it doesn't specify if Greater Arcane Sight tells you caster level of spells. Though Analyze Dwomer does.

Right. Analyze Dweomer says what the CL is, but Greater Arcane Sight doesn't.

Quote :
Shil, is there someone in Iokar that he can pick up the spell "Wing Clip" from? Either in trade or straight cash?

What's the source of the spell? It's not in the SC. Assume a "no", since I don't want to add any new ones from other sources. But if you meant Wingbind, then yes, it's available on a scroll.

Quote :
We should definitely pick up some tanglefoot bags and cast silence on them. Especially if we can put them somewhere she can't easily scrape off. Putting them on her seems particularly well suited to our friends helping out.

We discussed this before, and once the item it's cast on (the bag) goes "kaplooey", so does the spell, so that won't work.

Quote :
Shil Can the rogue guy fly somehow?

He'd be counting on scrolls or potions of Fly, for short-term flight (5 minutes a pop), but can get hold of a scroll of Overland Flight for longer. Won't be able to keep up with your Phantom Stags and Steeds, of course.

Quote :
BTW I'm guessing we shouldn't read this thread on EN World?

"Dragon hoard/ lair in Argonnessen (Eberron)"

Right Smile

Quote :
Yes, I think everone other than 6 has them. Nameless has a ring of greater counterspells. We should have GDMs in all the rings, since a regular dispel only succeeds on a 17 or better.

Gareth lost his when he got mugged by Xagygyrag, but Korm and Luna have one each.

Quote :
The main problem with the AM field is that if we use it, we need to ground the dragon. Since it can fly without magic and we can't. However, we don't have any way to ground the dragon without magic either. Also it's a "self" spell so Nameless would have to somehow stay with/on the dragon. I had contemplated using a tanglefoot bag to glue Nameless to the dragon, but there's just too many problems with tackling the dragon in the absense of magic.

Right. And a dragon in an AMF is likely going to drop a PC a round, since you guys would lose a lot of AC and your Con and Dex boosts, etc. Gareth would also lose the Endless Blade.
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PostSubject: Re: Back in Argonnessen (for the moment)   Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:24 pm

Isn't Guyre damage on spell level? So five spells at level five reaches the maximun 25d12.

You beat me to the punch with counterspelling. Do we still have counterspell rings?

How long does the 20th level caster boost for Korm and Luna lasts. I was thinking we would be attacking with them at 20th caster level. Also they could put GDMs in some counterspell rings at 20th.

Wasn't there something about tanglefoot bags not holding the silent spell or a problem with SR when used directly at a dragon.

I see three tracks:
1 GA standard. Pump uo with spells. Have our 152.5d6 attack ready (fire mostly). Get on one side of the dragon's initiative. Ignore her attacks and blast it, then free for all.
2. Skirmishingness. Nameless on overwatch, Everyone set for running/flying down the dragon and get it. Since spells are this dragon's forte suppressing that should be enough to allow the rest to run it down.
3. Knife fight. Use antimagic field and go old school on it.

Problems with all of them, depends on our we are feeling.
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PostSubject: Re: Back in Argonnessen (for the moment)   Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:35 pm

Six of Six wrote:
Isn't Guyre damage on spell level? So five spells at level five reaches the maximun 25d12.

No the original version did d12/per lv, but it was revised to just d12/spell.

Six of Six wrote:
You beat me to the punch with counterspelling. Do we still have counterspell rings?

Yes, I think everone other than 6 has them. Nameless has a ring of greater counterspells. We should have GDMs in all the rings, since a regular dispel only succeeds on a 17 or better.

Six of Six wrote:
How long does the 20th level caster boost for Korm and Luna lasts. I was thinking we would be attacking with them at 20th caster level. Also they could put GDMs in some counterspell rings at 20th.

It lasts for 10 min. The level of the GDM in the ring doesn't matter though. Since it only counterspells that spell and if you use the same spell it's automatically successful, the level/bonus doesn't matter.

Six of Six wrote:
3. Knife fight. Use antimagic field and go old school on it.

The main problem with the AM field is that if we use it, we need to ground the dragon. Since it can fly without magic and we can't. However, we don't have any way to ground the dragon without magic either. Also it's a "self" spell so Nameless would have to somehow stay with/on the dragon. I had contemplated using a tanglefoot bag to glue Nameless to the dragon, but there's just too many problems with tackling the dragon in the absense of magic.
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PostSubject: Re: Back in Argonnessen (for the moment)   Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:35 pm

Ah, crap! I meant to quote and respond to John's post three posts above, and hit edit instead, so I took out the post and just put in my response instead. Sorry about that.
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PostSubject: Re: Back in Argonnessen (for the moment)   Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:58 pm

Shilsen wrote:
Ah, crap! I meant to quote and respond to John's post three posts above, and hit edit instead, so I took out the post and just put in my response instead. Sorry about that.

Censorship!

Shilsen wrote:
What's the source of the spell? It's not in the SC. Assume a "no", since I don't want to add any new ones from other sources. But if you meant Wingbind, then yes, it's available on a scroll.

Wingclip is the name of a movement imparing ability in WoW. Yes wingbind is what I was thinking of

Shilsen wrote:
Right. And a dragon in an AMF is likely going to drop a PC a round, since you guys would lose a lot of AC and your Con and Dex boosts, etc. Gareth would also lose the Endless Blade.

Don't I get any points for the idea of casting AMF and then gluing Nameless to the dragon?
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PostSubject: Re: Back in Argonnessen (for the moment)   Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:19 am

If Mike and Julia haven't picked out all their 8th lvl bonus spells. I think I have a good one for you.

Boulderfall (druid 8 ) - 1d8/lvl (max 20d8), IIRC 20' radius. Reflex for half, if you fail you are buried under 5' of rubble dc 20 str check to escape.
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PostSubject: Re: Back in Argonnessen (for the moment)   Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:27 am

kill both dragons Smile
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