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 Defense of Flamekeep

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PostSubject: Defense of Flamekeep   Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:34 pm

Posting from Dave:

Quote :
The defense of Flamekeep

General Idea
Slow the army until the flood attack is ready.
Rope trick mines and skirmishers to harass army.

A piece of Stormkeep Mountain is used to create a wave to flood the basin outside of Flamekeep.
Spells are used to channel the resulting wave.

New - Counter Attack. After the wave disrupts the army outside Flamekeep, there is a counter attack to destroy the remaining army and giant snake. The counter attackers have to be mobile and able to navigate a flooded plain. We need a special strike force to kill the snake.

Shil is in the Details
Inquiries here, answers will change the details of our plans. Depending on the answers the particulars can change. Stay with the goal of any tactic and not the tactic itself.

What are our estimates on itís hit dice, AC , attacks, defenses. Does our soul sharing with it allow for anything exploitable, immunity from itís magic negation or damage sharing perhaps.

Since magic is neutralized, can we get powerful non magic troops. Barbarian orcs on dinosaurs wielding monks might work.

Can an airship hit the snake from two thousand feet with any kind ordinance? We have reports of the magic neutralization field out to fifteen thousand feet, so two thousand should be outside of its range.

Do we have any flying troops available? We need CAP (combat air patrol) for the airships and close air support for the counterattack.

.
On another matter, we should rename the Grey House, say Apotheosis, or Paradise or Pair-of-Dice.
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PostSubject: Re: Defense of Flamekeep   Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:02 pm

And some answers/comments:

Quote :
A piece of Stormkeep Mountain is used to create a wave to flood the basin outside of Flamekeep.

Thronehold, to be precise.

Quote :
Shil is in the Details

Very Happy

Quote :
What are our estimates on itís hit dice, AC , attacks, defenses.

No idea at this point. Based on what Luna saw and the very limited information from battles against it, it's easy to hit, since it's just so large. But attacks barely seem to damage it in any way, whether physical or elemental.

Quote :
Does our soul sharing with it allow for anything exploitable, immunity from itís magic negation or damage sharing perhaps.

Possibly. But no idea right now.

Quote :
Since magic is neutralized, can we get powerful non magic troops. Barbarian orcs on dinosaurs wielding monks might work.

Impossible in the given time frame. Especially since most of these troops would be busy fighting aberrations in their lands.

Quote :
Can an airship hit the snake from two thousand feet with any kind ordinance? We have reports of the magic neutralization field out to fifteen thousand feet, so two thousand should be outside of its range.

Nope. That's well out of range of anything non-magical, and even a long-range spell (such as Fireball) cast at 20th level would reach only 1200 ft.

Quote :
Do we have any flying troops available? We need CAP (combat air patrol) for the airships and close air support for the counterattack.

The airship(s) would be the best bet. Flamekeep doesn't have much in the way of aerial warriors beyond people using Fly or other such spells. The Cathedral of the Silver Flame also has nearly 50 of the special gargoyles which serve the Flame that would be willing to fight in the battle.

Quote :
On another matter, we should rename the Grey House, say Apotheosis, or Paradise or Pair-of-Dice.

Your call Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Defense of Flamekeep   Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:18 pm

How far up can an airship do aerial bombardment, that is a cargo hold full of cannon balls, sixteen pound rocks, pushed out the back.

Between Nameless and Jaeel(?) what can we find out about our soul link to the beast.
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PostSubject: Re: Defense of Flamekeep   Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:47 pm

Admin wrote:

Quote :
Can an airship hit the snake from two thousand feet with any kind ordinance? We have reports of the magic neutralization field out to fifteen thousand feet, so two thousand should be outside of its range.

Nope. That's well out of range of anything non-magical, and even a long-range spell (such as Fireball) cast at 20th level would reach only 1200 ft.

Dropping tons of crap from the sky shouldnt care about height other then lower accuracy. But a snake and an army = BIG target
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PostSubject: Re: Defense of Flamekeep   Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:52 pm

Six of Six wrote:
How far up can an airship do aerial bombardment, that is a cargo hold full of cannon balls, sixteen pound rocks, pushed out the back.

I'll put five thousand feet as the upper limit. Anything over a thousand feet would make it very difficult, if not impossible, to hit a moving target (unless it is very large or slow). Hitting parts of an army, however, is not difficult.

Quote :
Between Nameless and Jaeel(?) what can we find out about our soul link to the beast.

Nothing definitive. As Jaela mentioned, divination magic of all kind has turned out to be completely useless on Mual-Tar. But she assumes that the link between your souls and the Chaos Serpent will definitely have some sort of effect. Unfortunately, only experimentation will reveal it.

Speaking of divinations, since you have Jaela around, she can do a Commune (18 yes/no answers) and a couple of Divinations for you guys. Go ahead and post your questions and I'll post answers.
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PostSubject: Re: Defense of Flamekeep   Mon Oct 19, 2009 3:53 pm

It does occur to me that given that Nameless's Contact Other Planes can talk to Cyšegha, it might be able to bypass the divination resistance. Presumably he's much closer kin to it than most sources and knowledge is his shtick as I understand things.

Of course, barring something that affects stat checks, it has something like a 45% (maybe 60-70% given my rolls) chance reducing him to imbecility for several weeks, but there's a good chance he won't be of much use vs the wyrm in any case.

I'm most concerned about killing the worm. With magic we've proven, we can shatter most armies. Once it's down killing the army will be much, much easier.

Nameless's Ring does let him double the range of spells (x3 up to 3rd/1x up to 6th). So he can conceivably hit stuff from well outside the range of the Null.
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PostSubject: Re: Defense of Flamekeep   Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:36 pm

Nameless wrote:

Nameless's Ring does let him double the range of spells (x3 up to 3rd/1x up to 6th). So he can conceivably hit stuff from well outside the range of the Null.

While we would all enjoy Nameless being reduced to a mental pile of goo let's avoid that for now Smile

Won't a magic spell, the moment it enters the null field, disappear? I know some spells conjur things and that doesn't disappear, but they are limited spells. E.g. if you make a mountain float into the null field, the mountain will fall since the magic holding it is gone.
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PostSubject: Re: Defense of Flamekeep   Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:15 pm

Gareth wrote:
While we would all enjoy Nameless being reduced to a mental pile of goo let's avoid that for now Smile

Information is always key in any battle. What kills us 90% of the time facing off against Shil's creations is that we don't know anything about them or how to fight them. Especially given that Casters may be largely ineffective, Nameless is an acceptible casualty.

Gareth wrote:
Won't a magic spell, the moment it enters the null field, disappear? I know some spells conjur things and that doesn't disappear, but they are limited spells. E.g. if you make a mountain float into the null field, the mountain will fall since the magic holding it is gone.

The range comment was directed to Shil's comment that 1,500' is outside the range of any spells.

In other news, Sepulrchrave II has seen our "hit them with a chunk of Thronehold" and raised us a "Hit them with an asteroid".

http://www.enworld.org/forum/story-hour/130712-viridity-saizhan-updated-10-16-09-a-43.html

Quote :
"Ngarh!" Nwm snarled. "Find me a meteoroid. Not too big."

"Not so big," Mesikammi nodded sagely. "They go very fast."

The Alienist scowled and concentrated. Ten minutes elapsed.

[Mostin]: Here's one.

Nwm exhaled. "Alright. Are we ready?"

Mostin had expected more preparation from Nwm; at least an idea. Vectors. Something. There was a huge surge of magical power and a sense that his reservoir might be sucked dry, accompanied by another dissociation which Mostin found disturbingly euphoric. A backlash of green lightning coursed over all present, arcing between them and burning them.

There was bright flash on the horizon. Silence. Even those who were otherwise insensitive to such things felt a breath of release as millions of souls were liberated: all of those whom the Eater of Life had consumed in its unguessably long history.

Around a minute passed before the noise of the impact struck them: a growl like distant thunder. A breeze began to stir, and quickly stiffened.

"Very impressive," Mostin conceded.** "That almost counts as deicide."

Nwm groaned, and shook his head.

Even as he had erased Shvar Choryati, the very source of that shadow Ė or so it seemed to the Preceptor Ė had announced its arrival within the Interwoven Green with an expurgative necromancy: a spell which slew everything which remained alive within two leagues of Jashat which was not sworn in body and soul to the Dark Goddess.

Kaalaanala, the Fire of Death, abode in the Temple of Cheshne.


*"Those which glow abominably," a term for powerful celestials.
**Epic conjuration/400d20 bludgeoning damage! Yay!

FWIW, someone posted a link to the area where Sepulchrave has been doing some explaining and retooling of 3e.


I'll poke through it and see if there's anything useful.
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PostSubject: Re: Defense of Flamekeep   Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:21 pm

Nameless wrote:

Information is always key in any battle. What kills us 90% of the time facing off against Shil's creations is that we don't know anything about them or how to fight them. Especially given that Casters may be largely ineffective, Nameless is an acceptible casualty..

I think it's our inability to stick to our plans. A couple of our plans were laid to waste because some orc in our group charged in when we definitively spelled out we would not charge in
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PostSubject: Re: Defense of Flamekeep   Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:40 pm

Gareth wrote:
Nameless wrote:

Information is always key in any battle. What kills us 90% of the time facing off against Shil's creations is that we don't know anything about them or how to fight them. Especially given that Casters may be largely ineffective, Nameless is an acceptible casualty..

I think it's our inability to stick to our plans. A couple of our plans were laid to waste because some orc in our group charged in when we definitively spelled out we would not charge in

For some reason a quote about "Glasshouses" and "stones" springs to mind...

Personally, I'm inclined to chain BOTH Gareth and Korm to Six with 15' chains.

Next battle we all delay until the same initiative and practice FIRE DISCIPLINE!!!!

EVERYONE (and that includes ME) hits the same target until it goes down.
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PostSubject: Re: Defense of Flamekeep   Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:08 pm

Nameless wrote:
For some reason a quote about "Glasshouses" and "stones" springs to mind...

Personally, I'm inclined to chain BOTH Gareth and Korm to Six with 15' chains.

Very Happy

Quote :
Next battle we all delay until the same initiative and practice FIRE DISCIPLINE!!!!

EVERYONE (and that includes ME) hits the same target until it goes down.

That'll be interesting to see, if it happens. You guys can bring a scary amount of damage to bear.
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PostSubject: Re: Defense of Flamekeep   Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:46 pm

Nameless wrote:
Gareth wrote:
Nameless wrote:

Information is always key in any battle. What kills us 90% of the time facing off against Shil's creations is that we don't know anything about them or how to fight them. Especially given that Casters may be largely ineffective, Nameless is an acceptible casualty..

I think it's our inability to stick to our plans. A couple of our plans were laid to waste because some orc in our group charged in when we definitively spelled out we would not charge in

For some reason a quote about "Glasshouses" and "stones" springs to mind...

Personally, I'm inclined to chain BOTH Gareth and Korm to Six with 15' chains.

Next battle we all delay until the same initiative and practice FIRE DISCIPLINE!!!!

EVERYONE (and that includes ME) hits the same target until it goes down.

quick post

Consider, it is more about formations than plans. We are like a sports team, jugger, basketball, or hockey where our positioning is going to determine how well we can act. Against fewer opponents, Korm Luna and Gareth should be together, while Six and Nameless remain detached. Against greater than our number, Korm ,Luna, Gareth and Six should be together and Nameless detached.* 'Together' is with a step or the equivalent and 'detached' is within a half your move. **
Getting the pack to form up will depend on the situation, as our initiatives will probably be split with respect to the enemy. Sometimes the high initiative folks should act to delay the opposition so we can form up. Something cheap that would disrupt them for a round.


*I hope the idea that Nameless should keep the defensive line between him and the monsters need not be stated.
** This should be 'within the move of the slowest member of the line' but you (me) might be to sleepy to keep track of that.
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PostSubject: Re: Defense of Flamekeep   Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:16 pm

I've been saying together forever, but whenever I run in there is a reason. For example - my reason to run in the last time would have been cause they were decimating us with ranged and we needed to go in. The idea is that the other melee people will follow....but there was a strict reason...take the range out with melee- not sit there and get pummeled by three-four ranged folks.
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PostSubject: Re: Defense of Flamekeep   Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:02 am

Gareth wrote:
I've been saying together forever, but whenever I run in there is a reason. For example - my reason to run in the last time would have been cause they were decimating us with ranged and we needed to go in. The idea is that the other melee people will follow....but there was a strict reason...take the range out with melee- not sit there and get pummeled by three-four ranged folks.

By the time you charged our play was busted and we were in desperation mode.
It is tough to keep a formation if all involved don't know that is what is going on (see 10/18 Eagles offensive line).
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PostSubject: Re: Defense of Flamekeep   Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:48 am

Six of Six wrote:
By the time you charged our play was busted and we were in desperation mode.

Actually, if I recall correctly, Gareth charged in the 2nd round of the fight, when you guys were all still fairly healthy. It's after he charged (and got full attacked by 3 enemies while separated from the rest) that things went seriously downhill.
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PostSubject: Re: Defense of Flamekeep   Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:09 am

I've put up a thread in the Rules section here. It has some new rules I'll be trying out, as well as info on your current enchancements (which have improved). Take a look and let me know (in that thread) if you have any questions.
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Leonis



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PostSubject: Re: Defense of Flamekeep   Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:30 pm

Admin wrote:
Six of Six wrote:
By the time you charged our play was busted and we were in desperation mode.

Actually, if I recall correctly, Gareth charged in the 2nd round of the fight, when you guys were all still fairly healthy. It's after he charged (and got full attacked by 3 enemies while separated from the rest) that things went seriously downhill.

I waited the first round. Nothing happened - other then we got hit with hard ranged spells. I didn't want that to happen again. As I recall our ally ran into battle and he was out of the fight, and within the first round we realized nameless was not going to be much help due to the enemy insane resistances. Gareth was not separated, he was between the group and the enemies - he just got hit hard by 3. Wasn't exactly expecting your three goons to be able to go full round on gareth and hit each attack.
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PostSubject: Re: Defense of Flamekeep   Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:50 pm

Gareth wrote:
I waited the first round. Nothing happened - other then we got hit with hard ranged spells. I didn't want that to happen again. As I recall our ally ran into battle and he was out of the fight, and within the first round we realized nameless was not going to be much help due to the enemy insane resistances.

Actually, Nameless had a 50% chance of going through SR against three of the enemies and the two spellcasters didn't have SR. You guys only had a round before you ran in, so it's not as if you had much time to work out resistances and such.

Quote :
Gareth was not separated, he was between the group and the enemies - he just got hit hard by 3. Wasn't exactly expecting your three goons to be able to go full round on gareth and hit each attack.

I'd think that was pretty obviously going to happen, which is why Six/Dave specifically said not to do so. Gareth charged the middle guy of the three, which meant the others were close enough to step in and full attack. And actually less than half of their attacks hit. It's just that they were making 4 attacks each, so even though 7 attacks missed Gareth took 5 hits doing 30+ pts of damage each.
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PostSubject: Re: Defense of Flamekeep   Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:30 pm

Desperation mode refers to the players mind set. What we faced was so different from what we thought it would be we went tilt. When we plan we are to wedded to the imagined particulars to respond to what we find. In hindsight we should have piled on Luna and flew into their formation, ignoring the ranged spells. As spells they should only have one or two of them, regardless once among them range area spells are moot.
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PostSubject: Re: Defense of Flamekeep   Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:09 pm

Six of Six wrote:
Desperation mode refers to the players mind set. What we faced was so different from what we thought it would be we went tilt. When we plan we are to wedded to the imagined particulars to respond to what we find. In hindsight we should have piled on Luna and flew into their formation, ignoring the ranged spells. As spells they should only have one or two of them, regardless once among them range area spells are moot.

I'd half expected you guys to do that, actually, when some of you piled on Luna, esp. since it's a nice way to complicate things for casters.

I'm in a few games on Playbyweb, which include some of the 3e adventure paths (heavy on hack-and-slash), and we recently had a moment where the PC group (lacking any arcane casters & low on spells and other resources after half a dozen fights) ran into the BBEG wizard and his two spellcaster allies, with three big melee types between them and us. My cleric/barbarian was the only PC with some buffs up, and I was tempted to start swinging. But then I remembered that he was giving the party warblade and rogue a ride (since he was enlarged). So I just ran through the enemies to the casters. I ate some AoOs, but when I arrived and dropped them off next to him, they flanked and full attacked and finished the BBEG in one round. 2 rounds later the fight was over. Sometimes it's helpful to be a taxi.
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