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 Rules stuff after the return

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Admin
Admin


Number of posts : 1299
Localisation : RBDM with a heart of gold
Registration date : 2006-09-11

PostSubject: Rules stuff after the return   Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:07 am

New House Rules

* A character may have no more spells functioning at once (i.e. with a duration of longer than “instantaneous”) on them than one + one per three character levels (round down). For example, a 1st level character may only benefit from 1 spell at a given moment, and a 16th level character may only have 6 spells on them at once.
* A character may not have more than one summoning spell in effect at one time. If a character who has a summoning in effect casts another one, the effects of the first summoning cease instantly. Note: Nameless’ ability to summon the Horror does not count for this restriction.
* Charging is a standard action, where you move your speed and make a single attack at the end of it.
* Characters (and most enemies) no longer make multiple attacks a round using the full attack system as in the standard rules. Instead, all characters (except Luna and Nameless) will choose a number of maneuvers from The Book of Nine Swords in conjunction with me, each of which can be used once per encounter. Characters with classes from Bo9S will receive maneuvers from those classes as usual, which will be in addition to the maneuvers gained based on level.

Current PC enhancements

+4 enhancement bonuses to all stats (+6 to one)
+4 enhancement bonus (attack and damage) with any weapon
+4 enhancement bonus to any worn armor
+5 resistance bonus to saves
+4 deflection bonus to AC
+5 enhancement bonus to natural AC
fast healing 1 (begins 1 minute after taking lethal damage)
resist 5 to all energy types
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PostSubject: Re: Rules stuff after the return   Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:11 am

Regarding the use of Bo9S maneuvers, what I'm going to do is email the players involved individually with a list of available maneuvers (which will vary from PC to PC) and have them pick a certain number off the list.
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Nameless



Number of posts : 307
Registration date : 2006-09-11

PostSubject: Re: Rules stuff after the return   Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:21 am

Admin wrote:
* A character may have no more spells functioning at once (i.e. with a duration of longer than “instantaneous”) on them than one + one per three character levels (round down). For example, a 1st level character may only benefit from 1 spell at a given moment, and a 16th level character may only have 6 spells on them at once.

Does this include something like contingency or spells cast by contingency? What about items that have effects like a ring of elemental resistances or freedom of movement. Six's harness, Nameless/Gareth's Aspects, Luna's Shapeshifting, Permanancied spells?

What happens if you have N spells up and decide to cast an additional spell. Do you get to chose the spell you loose?

It does seem to disproportionately hurt arcane casters. Since they rely on spells for defenses and can't wear armor or use shields.

Admin wrote:
* A character may not have more than one summoning spell in effect at one time. If a character who has a summoning in effect casts another one, the effects of the first summoning cease instantly. Note: Nameless’ ability to summon the Horror does not count for this restriction.

Is there really a point to this? Summoned creatures are not generally the major time sinks during fights and half the time they get rendered ineffective by high ACs and/or Prot Evil.

It also seems to be a limitation almost exclusively on Nameless. Since he's almost always the only one with multiple summons running and summoning stuff is his shtick to begin with.

The knock on effect of this rule would also mean that if we wanted the same number of summoned creatures, we'd spread summoning out among MORE people. So rather than having just Nameless and Luna doing it. We'd have 4 characters and four people handing their summoned creatures.

Admin wrote:
Current PC enhancements

+4 enhancement bonuses to all stats (+6 to one)
+4 enhancement bonus (attack and damage) with any weapon
+4 enhancement bonus to any worn armor
+5 resistance bonus to saves
+4 deflection bonus to AC
+5 enhancement bonus to natural AC
fast healing 1 (begins 1 minute after taking lethal damage)
resist 5 to all energy types

I assume the resist energy does not stack with other resistance we may have.


Last edited by Nameless on Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Rules stuff after the return   Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:49 am

Nameless wrote:
Does this include something like contingency or spells cast by contingency?

Yes, it does. If you have a Contingency up it'll count as one of the spells allowable, and if it's triggered then the Contingency ends and whatever spell it cast takes its place.

Quote :
What about items that have effects like a ring of elemental resistances or freedom of movement.

Unless the item is being used to actually cast a spell on you it doesn't count against the restriction. So a ring of elemental resistance or of freedom of movement won't count against it.

Quote :
It does seem to disproportionately hurt pure casters. Since they rely on spells for defenses and can't wear armor or use shields.

In theory, but not so much in practice in this group. Most of the time in the group I find Gareth and Korm have even more spells up than Nameless. It definitely won't hurt Nameless much on the AC front, since he has almost as high an AC as the other PCs with one spell (Greater Mage Armor), and he's getting the main other defense (saves) automatically.

Quote :
Is there really a point to this? Summoned creatures are not generally the major time sinks during fights and half the time they get rendered redundant by high ACs and/or Prot Evil.

They may not be the major time sink, but they're one among a number of things which add up. When I'm running, I've noticed even one summon spell to add significantly to time spent, because it adds some significant rolling to your turns and a lot more to the NPCs'. Trying to cut down on time spent on rolling by eliminating full attacks for the other PCs doesn't make much sense if that's combined with rolling attacks and damage half a dozen times on your turn.

Quote :
It also seems to be a limitation almost exclusively on Nameless. Since he's almost always the only one with multiple summons running and that is his shtick to begin with.

Luna tends to do a good bit of summoning too, and there are limitations on the other PCs too with the limitation of full attacks. And considering all his other spells, plus he can still cast one spell and whistle up two greater earth elementals which are individually tougher than any other PC, I don't think he'll be particularly limited.

In short, you guys have a whole lot of stuff which makes you way stronger than the norm. I'm just dialing back a few of the things which tend to make combat go a lot slower, while ensuring that PCs are still able to contribute meaningfully in a fight. I seriously don't think the changes will affect your effectiveness, partly because I'll obviously be taking them into account in the future and partly because they will hurt many of your enemies a lot. Due to the (un)natural enhancements, your PCs rely a lot less on buffs than most PCs of your level do, whereas NPCs don't get that benefit. If we had these rules in play when you met the five NPCs at the ziggurat, you'd have wiped the floor with them, with whatever tactics you decided you use.

Quote :
I assume the resist energy does not stack with other resistance we may have.

Right.
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Nameless



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PostSubject: Re: Rules stuff after the return   Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:11 am

Admin wrote:
partly because they will hurt many of your enemies a lot. Due to the (un)natural enhancements, your PCs rely a lot less on buffs than most PCs of your level do, whereas NPCs don't get that benefit. If we had these rules in play when you met the five NPCs at the ziggurat, you'd have wiped the floor with them, with whatever tactics you decided you use.

So you are saying you are just going to weaken the bad guys to the point that they are walkovers and not simply find some other abusive stacking combos, via items, templates, innate abilities and half a dozen prestige classes?
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PostSubject: Re: Rules stuff after the return   Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:21 am

Nameless wrote:
So you are saying you are just going to weaken the bad guys to the point that they are walkovers and not simply find some other abusive stacking combos, via items, templates, innate abilities and half a dozen prestige classes?

No, I'm saying what I said above: "I seriously don't think the changes will affect your effectiveness, partly because I'll obviously be taking them into account in the future and partly because they will hurt many of your enemies a lot."

That is, I said I'll take the rules changes into account and that they'll hurt many of your potential enemies more than they would you. That's all. I'll try, as I've done earlier, to often give you guys a tough challenge, which you'll need good tactics to beat. And sometimes you'll have enemies whom you'll beat without breaking a sweat and sometimes (more rarely) you'll have foes whom you should probably flee from.

And the rules I listed above should help me do all of the above, which I figure would be a positive thing.
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PostSubject: Re: Rules stuff after the return   Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:29 pm

Do things like mind blank from feats count as spells against us? This would be kind of a heavy hitter since it's a feat - not just a spell.

With regards to limiting to one attack a round - whats the compensation? You always say there is no benefit without a drawback - this is huge for gareth. While not often used gareth had the option to sunder weapon AND attack in the same round. Also, it reduces the effect of divine attack...maybe for the divine attack instead of only charisma to dmg give it also charisma to attack - considering before it was a full round action.

I will wait to reserve judgement until we look at book of nine swords, but so far this seems like a huge drawback for gareth.
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PostSubject: Re: Rules stuff after the return   Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:57 pm

Gareth wrote:
Do things like mind blank from feats count as spells against us? This would be kind of a heavy hitter since it's a feat - not just a spell.

The feat lets him use it as an Sp ability, right? In that case, it does count (since Sp abilities do). If that makes you want to swap the feat for another, that's fine by me.

Quote :
With regards to limiting to one attack a round - whats the compensation? You always say there is no benefit without a drawback - this is huge for gareth. While not often used gareth had the option to sunder weapon AND attack in the same round. Also, it reduces the effect of divine attack...maybe for the divine attack instead of only charisma to dmg give it also charisma to attack - considering before it was a full round action.

I will wait to reserve judgement until we look at book of nine swords, but so far this seems like a huge drawback for gareth.

Three compensations come to mind:

(1) The maneuvers will let Gareth do a lot more damage on a single hit, which he'll likely not miss since it'll be at his best attack bonus and he can smite and such.
(2) Enemies won't be getting full attacks either, so we won't have situations like Gareth charging 3 enemies and getting full attacked down past -10 in one round.
(3) We have more variation when you go than "I full attack", since you'll have multiple maneuvers to choose among.
(4) Fights go faster and your DM is happier (two compensations in one!).

I'll mail you the maneuver list tomorrow.
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