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Admin
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PostSubject: Planning in general   Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:51 am

Here's a thread for any planning you need to do, for the snake/worm or otherwise.
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PostSubject: Re: Planning in general   Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:53 am

To start things off, here's the information you have thus far on Mual-Tar:

AC: 45

Saves: 30+ on Fort and Will, 15+ on Ref

DR 15/epic and byeshk

Energy resistance 15 (all)

Fast healing 15

NOT immune to criticals


Immune to magical information-gathering (and very likely to mind-affecting stuff of all kinds)

Immune to any and all magic (but can be affected by magic weapons).
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PostSubject: Re: Planning in general   Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:59 am

And the information you have on the link between all of you (and Mual-Tar) thus far:

At any time, without concentration, you're aware of direction to the others in the link.

If you concentrate for 1 minute, you can speak to someone else on the link and have them respond to you if they want, i.e. you can hear them and vice versa. If someone is trying to contact you in this way, you know that someone - and who - is trying to do so, but don't have to hear the words unless you choose. If you choose, you can contact multiple parties at once this way and carry on a conversation with all of them at once (and each of them will be able to hear and speak to everyone else in the conversation).

If you concentrate for 1 minute, you can pick up the distance to someone else on the link.

As a full-round action, you can cast a touch spell and have it affect someone else on the link at 10 feet.

The link and its effects seem work through any kind of magical barrier, e.g. Mind Blank or the barrier around the Mournland.
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PostSubject: Re: Planning in general   Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:00 pm

Admin wrote:
The link and its effects seem work through any kind of magical barrier, e.g. Mind Blank or the barrier around the Mournland.
Does this mean we can cast a Greater Heroism or Good Hope through the link, through our Mind Blanks, and have it affect the target?
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PostSubject: Re: Planning in general   Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:35 pm

I've been looking at spells to take as Korm's final Hexer bonus spell. I've been looking especially at Necromancy and Illusion spells, since Nameless can't cast those. Would you allow the Avasculate spell from the SC? Its mechanics may be slightly dodgy, since its damage is based on the target's HP, an approach that WotC seemed to do away with in 3.5 (with the changes to Heal and Harm).
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PostSubject: Re: Planning in general   Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:59 pm

Korm'akhan wrote:
Does this mean we can cast a Greater Heroism or Good Hope through the link, through our Mind Blanks, and have it affect the target?

No, that wouldn't work, since the Mind Blank keeps affecting the target and makes them immune to the effect. So, for example, if someone on the link has Resist Energy (Fire) up, you can't bypass it due to the link.

But magical barriers can be bypassed, it seems. So if someone is on the other side of a wall of force, you could still affect them with a touch spell. You couldn't hit them with a fireball or a magic missile, since those spells create effects which would need to reach them and the wall of force would get in the way. But a heal would work.

Quote :
I've been looking at spells to take as Korm's final Hexer bonus spell. I've been looking especially at Necromancy and Illusion spells, since Nameless can't cast those. Would you allow the Avasculate spell from the SC? Its mechanics may be slightly dodgy, since its damage is based on the target's HP, an approach that WotC seemed to do away with in 3.5 (with the changes to Heal and Harm).

No avasculate, for exactly the reason you mentioned. Spells which do damage based primarily off the target's hp are disproportionately powerful.
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PostSubject: Re: Planning in general   Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:15 pm

That opens up some interesting tactics for Rejuvenation Cocoon, which Luna and Korm can now quicken. Even if they don't provide any healing in the Mournland, they still provide some respite from attacks for a couple rounds, and now enable us to buff people outside.

How exactly does healing (not) work in the Mournland?
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PostSubject: Re: Planning in general   Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:18 pm

Korm'akhan wrote:
That opens up some interesting tactics for Rejuvenation Cocoon, which Luna and Korm can now quicken. Even if they don't provide any healing in the Mournland, they still provide some respite from attacks for a couple rounds, and now enable us to buff people outside.

Exactly. It's not much good against Mual-Tar, which seems able to ignore spells like the Cocoon, but against other enemies it can be a lifesaver. Considering that Mual-Tar is in the Mournland, your PCs are smart enough to know that the chances of encountering it without having to deal with other threats, whether from other aberrations and/or the Mournland itself, is next to negligible.

Quote :
How exactly does healing (not) work in the Mournland?

Basically, natural healing and spells of the conjuration (healing) subschool don't work there.

So no Cure X Wounds, Heal, Vigor spells, etc. But fast healing or regeneration inherent to a creature do work, which is good news for your PCs, as does lay on hands and similar abilities. Spells which grant temporary hit points do work too.

Plus, if you have the time, any spell which lets you pop into an extradimensional space (Rope Trick or Magnificent Mansion, for example) lets you use healing magic normally.
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PostSubject: Re: Planning in general   Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:00 am

Any tough flying mounts available?
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PostSubject: Re: Planning in general   Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:10 am

Six of Six wrote:
Any tough flying mounts available?

Phantom Stags are as tough as anything we are going to get on short notice and much faster than just about any of them.
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PostSubject: Re: Planning in general   Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:13 pm

Admin wrote:
If someone is trying to contact you in this way, you know that someone - and who - is trying to do so, but don't have to hear the words unless you choose. If you choose, you can contact multiple parties at once this way and carry on a conversation with all of them at once (and each of them will be able to hear and speak to everyone else in the conversation).

So we have the caller ID and conference call feature. Do we also have voicemail and call forwarding? Otherwise I think you need to reduce our rates. How many minutes a month? I want the unlimited plan.
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PostSubject: Re: Planning in general   Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:46 pm

Gareth wrote:
So we have the caller ID and conference call feature. Do we also have voicemail and call forwarding? Otherwise I think you need to reduce our rates. How many minutes a month? I want the unlimited plan.
And do we have a texting plan? Sometimes you just want to send Luna a quick message, and you know that if you call her she'll just talk at you on and on and on.

Shil, do we have access to any moderately high level artificers? I'd like to end the campaign the way it began - with an artificer doing little more than healing Six and infusing Bane Weapon onto Gareth's sword. Making Korm's and Six's weapons Holy would also help our damage-dealing.

I think Six should use scrolls to cast Shield Other on Gareth and Korm, and find as many scrolls of the Total Repair infusion (i.e. Heal for warforged) as he can. Six usually doesn't usually take much damage anyway, and he's the only PC that can be healed in the mournland.
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PostSubject: Re: Planning in general   Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:40 pm

Shield of Faith for Six? He already has that, its you guys.

Total repair is a 6th infusion not a spell. Infusions can't be put on scrolls. For 26,400 gp a total repair minor schema can be obtained. Its useable once a day if the spell/infusion is on our spell list or you have a high UMD.
(The proceeding is presented in the tone of snarky and sarcasm)

When Corven left, there was no one to effectively repair Six in combat. (If I have to make this point again it goes up in caps, bold, underline and a bigger font.) Squaring off against an opponent, trading shots while being healing doesn't work here. I made adjustments and paid the cost.

This Muad'Dib(sic) fight probably will go as the last one. The GA beats on the attendants, while some forgotten entity, element or feature whips up on Muad'Dib.

What is the relationship between the following; snake, Xoriat cyst, Lord of Blades camp, field of ruins, glass plateau, and glowing chasm. I was thinking distance but anything else relevant I'll take to.
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PostSubject: Re: Planning in general   Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:09 pm

Korm'akhan wrote:
Shil, do we have access to any moderately high level artificers? I'd like to end the campaign the way it began - with an artificer doing little more than healing Six and infusing Bane Weapon onto Gareth's sword. Making Korm's and Six's weapons Holy would also help our damage-dealing.

You guys are on reasonably good terms with House Cannith, so getting hold of some artificer help wouldn't be difficult. Getting them to actually go into the Mournland with you to take part in a battle against the monster that ate the Silver Flame is another matter.

Quote :
I think Six should use scrolls to cast Shield Other on Gareth and Korm, and find as many scrolls of the Total Repair infusion (i.e. Heal for warforged) as he can. Six usually doesn't usually take much damage anyway, and he's the only PC that can be healed in the mournland.

Six - or anyone else - would only be able to cast Shield Other on one person at a time.

And, as Dave just mentioned, you can't get scrolls of infusions.

Six of Six wrote:
Shield of Faith for Six? He already has that, its you guys.

Very Happy

Mike said Shield Other, i.e. the spell which shifts half the damage taken by someone to the caster.

Quote :
This Muad'Dib(sic) fight probably will go as the last one. The GA beats on the attendants, while some forgotten entity, element or feature whips up on Muad'Dib.

Possibly. But right now you guys are like a "forgotten entity, element or feature".

Quote :
What is the relationship between the following; snake, Xoriat cyst, Lord of Blades camp, field of ruins, glass plateau, and glowing chasm. I was thinking distance but anything else relevant I'll take to.

According to the info you guys have right now, Mual-Tar is right where the cyst was.

Last time you were there, the cyst was about seven miles past the outer edge of the Glass Plateau, at a spot five or so miles past the camp of the Lord of Blades (about 2 miles in).

The Glowing Chasm is far to the north and the Field of Ruins is far to the SW. Neither seems to have any connection with the rest.
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PostSubject: Re: Planning in general   Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:13 am

We could coral some living spells from the plateau and drive them on Mual-Tar's position.

Phantom stags and steeds are problematic. They are subject to magic cancellation and take up to many higher level spells. Its the number of spell slots use that's the killer.

Can we use our link to contact the silver flame bits directly. It might be a backdoor. Maybe we can gate in the silver flame, although its CR is probably higher than 19.
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PostSubject: Re: Planning in general   Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:18 am

Our Stags can last up to 23 hours, so we could easily cast them the night before we leave. The same is true for Mind Blank and Energy Immunity spells.

I don't know whether we'll need to teleport that morning though.

How does teleporting work in the mournland?
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PostSubject: Re: Planning in general   Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:10 am

Six of Six wrote:
We could coral some living spells from the plateau and drive them on Mual-Tar's position.

Phantom stags and steeds are problematic. They are subject to magic cancellation and take up to many higher level spells. Its the number of spell slots use that's the killer.

Can we use our link to contact the silver flame bits directly. It might be a backdoor. Maybe we can gate in the silver flame, although its CR is probably higher than 19.

Given that it basically ignores magical effects, why do you think the living spells will accomplish anything?

Steeds don't take up high level slots. Stags do take up 5th lvl slots, but between Korm and Luna they should have sufficient. They are subject to the Null, but we don't have to worry about them getting eaten on the way there and they are much faster than anything I'm familiar with and that's important given the low celling in the Mournland. Even at the max altitude, I suspect we are within jumping range of the Snake.
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PostSubject: Re: Planning in general   Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:36 am

Nameless wrote:
Six of Six wrote:
We could coral some living spells from the plateau and drive them on Mual-Tar's position.

Phantom stags and steeds are problematic. They are subject to magic cancellation and take up to many higher level spells. Its the number of spell slots use that's the killer.

Can we use our link to contact the silver flame bits directly. It might be a backdoor. Maybe we can gate in the silver flame, although its CR is probably higher than 19.

Given that it basically ignores magical effects, why do you think the living spells will accomplish anything?

Steeds don't take up high level slots. Stags do take up 5th lvl slots, but between Korm and Luna they should have sufficient. They are subject to the Null, but we don't have to worry about them getting eaten on the way there and they are much faster than anything I'm familiar with and that's important given the low celling in the Mournland. Even at the max altitude, I suspect we are within jumping range of the Snake.

Living spells are dress up oozes, which nature would take precedance. Beside the living spells are more for the attendants. Coraling them might be too much effort.

I want to try contacting the silver flame instead of the host via concentration.

As of now we need 9 stags, assuming the trolls can ride the stags. Deatthward is 5th level. I don't know how many other special defense spells are 5th.
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PostSubject: Re: Planning in general   Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:04 am

Six of Six wrote:
We could coral some living spells from the plateau and drive them on Mual-Tar's position.

Getting them to love Luna and follow her, eh?

Quote :
Can we use our link to contact the silver flame bits directly. It might be a backdoor. Maybe we can gate in the silver flame, although its CR is probably higher than 19.

Not likely, since the Silver Flame isn't an actual entity. Not even in the sense that some of the weirder Xoriat creatures are entities, with composite natures merging to create a larger, sentient whole. It's more like a collection of energy, made up of the souls of a huge number of good creatures, which in some way exists within the world.

Korm'akhan wrote:
Our Stags can last up to 23 hours, so we could easily cast them the night before we leave. The same is true for Mind Blank and Energy Immunity spells.

Damn - I forgot the Stags last that long. That does give you some nice options.

BTW, Energy Immunity is a spell I didn't allow.

Quote :
I don't know whether we'll need to teleport that morning though.

How does teleporting work in the mournland?

You can't teleport across the boundary of the Dead-Gray Mist which surrounds the Mournland, so no teleporting in from outside or vice versa. But within the Mournland you can teleport just fine, albeit with a chance of some unforeseen problems like doing anything in the Mournland.

It's possible that your link to Mual-Tar may allow teleportation to work just like it allows passage of information across the Dead-Gray Mist (which normally blocks all divination).

Nameless wrote:
Steeds don't take up high level slots. Stags do take up 5th lvl slots, but between Korm and Luna they should have sufficient. They are subject to the Null, but we don't have to worry about them getting eaten on the way there and they are much faster than anything I'm familiar with and that's important given the low celling in the Mournland. Even at the max altitude, I suspect we are within jumping range of the Snake.

True. The Steeds and Stags are faster than any living mounts you could come up with.

The Dead-Gray Mist is usually anywhere from 100 ft to 500 ft above the ground. Based on what you know of Mual-Tar, it can nail something 200 feet off the ground by reaching up. Whether it can actually get its entire body (300 feet) off the ground is unknown.

Six of Six wrote:
As of now we need 9 stags, assuming the trolls can ride the stags.

The trolls can't ride the stags. Too big.

Quote :
Deathward is 5th level. I don't know how many other special defense spells are 5th.

Death Ward is 4th level for Gareth. There are a lot of other good 4th and 5th level buffs.

One option is Mass Death Ward, if Luna or Korm take it, which will take care of everyone at once, but use up a 9th level slot.
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PostSubject: Re: Planning in general   Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:09 pm

Admin wrote:
Getting them to love Luna and follow her, eh?
Are living spells immune to mind-affecting spells? If not, Korm could use his charm hex on them.

Speaking of Hexes, is it safe to say that Nameless knows that aberrations have good willpower but poor reflexes and fortitude? Korm should know which of his hexes to use on the attendants.

Quote :
BTW, Energy Immunity is a spell I didn't allow.
D'oh! I may change my maneuvers then.

What would be more useful, immunity to fire, or concealment (20%) when Korm moves at least 10' in a round? A third stance gives +2 to hit and +4 damage against opponents larger than him.

If Korm has Greater Blink activated (NOT in the mournland, for obvious reasons), which gives foes a 50% miss chance but not from concealment, and also has concealment from the stance, would foes have both a 20% miss chance and a 50% miss chance?

Is the worm immune to concealment and/or supernatural effects that cause concealment? Does it have blindsight or tremorsense?

Quote :
It's possible that your link to Mual-Tar may allow teleportation to work just like it allows passage of information across the Dead-Gray Mist (which normally blocks all divination).
Normally I'd say it's worth testing, but I don't think it helps us much, and the possibility of something horrifying and unpredictable happening is too high. We should try casting spells on the worm through our link though, to see if the link gets past its magic immunity. Preferably something castable as a swift action, so we don't waste a precious standard action.

Quote :
One option is Mass Death Ward, if Luna or Korm take it, which will take care of everyone at once, but use up a 9th level slot.
Luna should take it, because she has two more 9th level spell slots than Korm. The downside of multiclassing with monk swordsage. Korm needs his two 9th level spells for Tsunami and Summon Elemental Monolith.
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PostSubject: Re: Planning in general   Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:17 pm

One more thing just occurred to me. The worm is totally immune to all spells. Does that mean that it's immune to the attacks of summoned creatures, and can pass through summoned creatures like it can pass through walls of force?
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PostSubject: Re: Planning in general   Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:58 pm

Korm'akhan wrote:
Admin wrote:
Getting them to love Luna and follow her, eh?
Are living spells immune to mind-affecting spells? If not, Korm could use his charm hex on them.

Yes they are oozes. But a Child of Winter that controls oozes, can be charmed.

Hmm can we a bunch of oozes, stick em in a force globe and dump it on the snake. Sort of slime wave 1st version.
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PostSubject: Re: Planning in general   Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:07 pm

Korm'akhan wrote:
One more thing just occurred to me. The worm is totally immune to all spells. Does that mean that it's immune to the attacks of summoned creatures, and can pass through summoned creatures like it can pass through walls of force?

Well summoned creatures are physical entities, not a magical effect. The snake shouldn't be able to ignore a Wall of Stone, since that is a real physical object once created. Likewise for summoned creatures, the spell simply maintains their presence, not their existence.

Besides if if it ignores summoned creatures like it does walls of force, there's no point in my even showing up for the game. Shil is cruel, but he doesn't make characters that completely useless.

We should be able to get at least some idea of the effect the link has on SR/The snake by having Nameless or Gareth put up their Aspects and having someone else in the group cast a spell on them and see if it has any easier time affecting them or bypasses the SR entirely.

I'm not seeing fire immunity as being very useful for this sort of thing Mike. The "al qaeda" attack isn't going to affect the snake and we're going to need every last bonus to hit and damage. Living spells are completely mindless, just like oozes.

Has anyone given any thought to how we can slow down and restrict the Snakes movement? The only thing I can think of is having one or more of the Monoliths grapple and restrain it. It burrows through solid rock more quickly than most things can move and it ignores any sort of magical barrier.

Wall of Iron might work, but Nameless only gets 19 five foot squares per casting and I'm not sure how practical it is for hemming the Snake in.

How large exactly is it Shil? Any ballpark figures on what it's strength is?
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PostSubject: Re: Planning in general   Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:47 pm

Nameless wrote:

I'm not seeing fire immunity as being very useful for this sort of thing Mike. The "al qaeda" attack isn't going to affect the snake and we're going to need every last bonus to hit and damage. Living spells are completely mindless, just like oozes.

It allows Korm to be a controller and a striker. Fire Immunity plus fire seeds clears out most gatherings. I'm not worried about the snake, its the attendants that bother me.

Nameless wrote:

Has anyone given any thought to how we can slow down and restrict the Snakes movement? The only thing I can think of is having one or more of the Monoliths grapple and restrain it. It burrows through solid rock more quickly than most things can move and it ignores any sort of magical barrier.
As it stands we have three task.
1. Do collectivly 1400 hit point to 45 AC in four rounds.
2. Keep up number 1 while being subject to the snake and attendants.
3. Stop the snake from leaving as 1 and 2 are successful.
At our present abilities I don't see it, maybe the ooze idea. So I'm expecting new abilities relative to the snake to make that fight possible. We just have to survive the prelims.
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PostSubject: Re: Planning in general   Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:05 pm

Korm'akhan wrote:
Are living spells immune to mind-affecting spells? If not, Korm could use his charm hex on them.

They're just like oozes in that regard (and have all the usual ooze traits) so, yes, they're immune.

Quote :
Speaking of Hexes, is it safe to say that Nameless knows that aberrations have good willpower but poor reflexes and fortitude? Korm should know which of his hexes to use on the attendants.

Definitely. Let's just say that any time you want to know what Nameless knows about regular aberrations, pop open the SRD and read all the details. If it's there, you know it.

Quote :
What would be more useful, immunity to fire, or concealment (20%) when Korm moves at least 10' in a round? A third stance gives +2 to hit and +4 damage against opponents larger than him.

Concealment would be better, but sometimes you're not going to want to (or be able to) move 10'. The +2 hit/+4 dmg stance is a pretty good one to keep around for such moments.

Quote :
If Korm has Greater Blink activated (NOT in the mournland, for obvious reasons)

Spoilsport!

Quote :
, which gives foes a 50% miss chance but not from concealment, and also has concealment from the stance, would foes have both a 20% miss chance and a 50% miss chance?

No. They would just have the highest miss chance applicable.

Quote :
Is the worm immune to concealment and/or supernatural effects that cause concealment?

No idea yet, but quite likely.

Quote :
Does it have blindsight or tremorsense?

You can't be sure yet, but it's definitely got some ability to know where things are at a substantial distance, including when it's underground. Apparently it could burrow underground at amazing speed and know where a dragon was flying 150 feet above (albeit a dragon attacking and making a lot of noise).

Quote :
Normally I'd say it's worth testing, but I don't think it helps us much, and the possibility of something horrifying and unpredictable happening is too high.


Again, I say - spoilsport!

Quote :
One more thing just occurred to me. The worm is totally immune to all spells. Does that mean that it's immune to the attacks of summoned creatures, and can pass through summoned creatures like it can pass through walls of force?

No, it can be affected by summoned creatures. I think a couple of Nameless' elementals hit it during the fight at the Flame.

Nameless wrote:
We should be able to get at least some idea of the effect the link has on SR/The snake by having Nameless or Gareth put up their Aspects and having someone else in the group cast a spell on them and see if it has any easier time affecting them or bypasses the SR entirely.

Nice idea. Experimentation reveals that the link doesn't get past SR, resistances, saves, etc. Only past actual barriers (physical and/or magical) between caster and target.

Quote :
Has anyone given any thought to how we can slow down and restrict the Snakes movement? The only thing I can think of is having one or more of the Monoliths grapple and restrain it. It burrows through solid rock more quickly than most things can move and it ignores any sort of magical barrier.

Wall of Iron might work, but Nameless only gets 19 five foot squares per casting and I'm not sure how practical it is for hemming the Snake in.

As of this moment, the Elemental Monolith(s) and Wall of Iron are your best bets. If something else comes up as a possibility which I think your PCs would think of, I'll let you know.

Quote :
How large exactly is it Shil? Any ballpark figures on what it's strength is?

It's 300+ feet in length and about 20-30 feet in diameter. Basically, it's bigger than Colossal. From what you guys experienced, it must have 50+ Str.

Six of Six wrote:
It allows Korm to be a controller and a striker. Fire Immunity plus fire seeds clears out most gatherings. I'm not worried about the snake, its the attendants that bother me.

Good to know that the snake doesn't worry you Very Happy

Quote :
As it stands we have three task.
1. Do collectivly 1400 hit point to 45 AC in four rounds.
2. Keep up number 1 while being subject to the snake and attendants.
3. Stop the snake from leaving as 1 and 2 are successful.
At our present abilities I don't see it, maybe the ooze idea. So I'm expecting new abilities relative to the snake to make that fight possible. We just have to survive the prelims.

We'll have to wait and see.
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Shil's Eberron Game :: The Final Countdown-
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