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 The final duel

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Admin
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PostSubject: Re: The final duel   Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:50 pm

Leonis wrote:
Hmm 4 spellcasters vs us.

Well, 3.5 spellcasters, since Avina is mostly going to be swinging a big sword.

It's coincidentally the same as what you have with the PCs. Each team has three primary spellcasters (Irovetti, Engilidis and Tyman vs. Kelis, Leonis, and Rowan), plus one dedicated melee combatant (Hannis vs. Grabthar) and one melee combatant who can use magic via UMD (Avina vs. Kara). Your side is more versatile, since you have three people who can cast 6th level spells (they have two) and one of your three primary spellcasters is damn good with weapons (Kelis, who's certainly better than Irovetti at that), as opposed to one of their melee combatants having spell-like abilities (Avina). But it's a surprisingly similar lineup, which is amusing since their lineup wasn't something I'd planned for but what emerged from their five most powerful NPCs.

Quote :
OK - grabthar and kara are walking around with stones of silence.

If you go that route, it'll be funny if they screw up the PC spellcasters' casting Twisted Evil

Quote :
No invisibility for me (this is the VERY reason why I didn't want this kind of battle - no element of surprise).

You'd have hated to see the element of surprise they'd have gone for if you'd turned down the duel. That might have been less work for me since you'd have had much less time to plan, but this is probably better. You don't want them having an edge in that area.
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PostSubject: Re: The final duel   Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:56 pm

Admin wrote:

You'd have hated to see the element of surprise they'd have gone for if you'd turned down the duel. That might have been less work for me since you'd have had much less time to plan, but this is probably better. You don't want them having an edge in that area.

They would have hated the element of surprised we'd have gone for if we didn't turn down the duel.

Anyhow folks - I think we should plan for the fight. Probably it will not come to fruition but it doesn't hurt to have a plan.
Who we plan to attack first, what spells/methods we plan.

I think everyone should have fly on them as well as a potion of fly as backup.
I think rings of counter spells with recip gyre and dispel magic is good to have
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PostSubject: Re: The final duel   Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:11 pm

Leonis wrote:
They would have hated the element of surprised we'd have gone for if we didn't turn down the duel.

If you had turned down the duel, a couple of your councilors who are outside Lakeshore (likely Oleg and someone else) would have been kidnapped that night, with the PCs receiving a message to fight Irovetti and co. at a location of their choosing (likely the lich's lair) in an hour or lose the councilors. And if you didn't show up, they'd have offed the councilors and just started killing your people indiscriminately till you fought them. Kelis and Rowan were right about Irovetti. He's (as the duel option indicates) desperate right now, so he has nothing to lose.

Quote :
Anyhow folks - I think we should plan for the fight. Probably it will not come to fruition but it doesn't hurt to have a plan.
Who we plan to attack first, what spells/methods we plan.

Planning is definitely a good idea, hence this thread, but also be prepared to make some changes on the fly, since you've been told that you'll make some discoveries about the duel conditions and arena just before it begins. You do know that the location will be magically constructed/modified by the Dragonmarked Houses (who are going to make tons of cash selling tickets to this thing!).

Quote :
I think everyone should have fly on them as well as a potion of fly as backup.

Mobility is a good idea. Since you have only 3 pre-cast spells, of course, you have to be careful about what you choose. Especially since (I presume) everyone will have a Heroes Feast from Kelis, so that leaves only two more.

Quote :
I think rings of counter spells with recip gyre and dispel magic is good to have

Two rings each? A lot of the PCs have at least one ring of some kind, so they wouldn't be able to do two Rings of Counterspells.
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PostSubject: Re: The final duel   Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:21 am

One of the primary decisions you'll have to make pre-duel is what three spells to have up on your character and what two scrolls or potions to carry. So I figured I'd keep track of choices/suggestions here. As of this moment, we have (I think) the following:

Grabthar:
Spells - Magic Circle vs. Evil, Death Ward, Heroes' Feast/Heroism/Greater Heroism
Potions/Scrolls - 2

Kara:
Spells - Heroes' Feast + 2
Potions/Scrolls - 2

Kelis:
Spells - Heroes' Feast + 2
Potions/Scrolls - 2

Leonis:
Spells - Heroes' Feast, Fly + 1
Potions/Scrolls - 2

Rowan:
Spells - Heroes' Feast + 2
Potions/Scrolls - 2

Vulpingetorix:
Spells - Heroes' Feast + 2

Suggestions?


Last edited by Admin on Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: The final duel   Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:35 am

Hero's feast is inferior to Heroism or Greater Heroism for most of us. The advantages it has mostly don't apply in this situation (duration and group buff).

Quote :
Heroes feast

Every creature partaking of the feast is cured of all sickness and nausea, receives the benefits of both neutralize poison and remove disease, and gains 1d8 temporary hit points + 1 point per two caster levels (maximum +10) after imbibing the nectar-like beverage that is part of the feast. The ambrosial food grants each creature that partakes a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls and Will saves and a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against poison and fear effects for 12 hours.

Essentially it just gets us the +1 on attack rolls and will saves + temp HP.

Quote :
Heroism (wiz 3th)

The target gains a +2 morale bonus on attack rolls, saves, and skill checks.

Greater Heroism (wiz 6th)

This spell functions like heroism, except the creature gains a +4 morale bonus on attack rolls, saves, and skill checks, immunity to fear effects, and temporary hit points equal to your caster level (maximum 20).

I would prefer a greater heroism for Grabthar, but that is a 6th lv spell.

Grabthar is going to need a Magic circle vs Evil, since Irovetti has Dominate person. Probably wouldn't be a bad idea for at least someone else to have one up as well.

Deathward to deal with the enervations from The Gimp would be my choice for the third one.

He'll have calm emotions in his ring of counterspells.
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PostSubject: Re: The final duel   Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:53 am

Nameless wrote:
Hero's feast is inferior to Heroism or Greater Heroism for most of us. The advantages it has mostly don't apply in this situation (duration and group buff).

Good point.

Quote :
I would prefer a greater heroism for Grabthar, but that is a 6th lv spell.

That's something you'll definitely have to take into account, because the three spells on each PC at the duel's start do have to be cast by the party's spellcasters, i.e. not off an item. That's one area where Heroes' Feast is handy, since Kelis can benefit everyone with one casting.

Quote :
Grabthar is going to need a Magic circle vs Evil, since Irovetti has Dominate person. Probably wouldn't be a bad idea for at least someone else to have one up as well.

Deathward to deal with the enervations from The Gimp would be my choice for the third one.

He'll have calm emotions in his ring of counterspells.

Sounds good. I'll add these to the above post.
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PostSubject: Re: The final duel   Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:13 pm

What about rigging up a "Baby Bjorn" for Leonis on Grabthar. It's not like his weight would even slow him down and it would make it easier to use the AM field.
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PostSubject: Re: The final duel   Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:50 pm

Nameless wrote:
What about rigging up a "Baby Bjorn" for Leonis on Grabthar. It's not like his weight would even slow him down and it would make it easier to use the AM field.

Hah! If I'd ever thrown an encounter at you consisting of, for example, a giant with a smaller caster strapped to it and casting an AMF, there'd have been much weeping and wailing at the table about how cheesy and unfair that was.

So - no. I considered coming up with rules (probably using the squeezing rules) to cover something like this, but it's just way too cheesy for me. Plus I'd rather Leonis was contributing and participating in the fight in ways beyond "I cast AMF and hang on Grabthar's back, until Avina and/or Hannis gets next to us and kills me in a round".
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PostSubject: Re: The final duel   Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:23 pm

I keep the following spells up 24/7, are they counted against the three effects?

  • Contingency
  • Mneumonic Enhancer
  • Anticipate Teleport
  • Bigbys Helpful hand



Of the pre-combat casting:
  • Magic Circle Vs Evil - Are there better mind protection spells then this? Between dominate, confusion, etc...
  • Death Ward
  • See Invisibility


Scroll:
Globe of Invulnerability


One ring of counterspell and leonis' ring which can also do that - thoughts on these two spells?
Dispel Magic
Enervation


We know Gimpy is going to focus on Leonis, so can we focus on him first? He has the ability to take Leonis out quickly. Plus if we focus on targets we have a chance of taking them out quickly.

I am still working on spells to cast during combat. So if there is something you guys think would be useful then let me know. I would like to disable our opponents.
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PostSubject: Re: The final duel   Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:51 pm

Leonis wrote:
I keep the following spells up 24/7, are they counted against the three effects?

  • Contingency
  • Mneumonic Enhancer
  • Anticipate Teleport
  • Bigbys Helpful hand


Yes they are Avi. It's "3 spells" not "except for the ones I use all the time. Of course I don't believe the rules prevent you from casting them after the fight begins.

Leonis wrote:
Of the pre-combat casting:
  • Magic Circle Vs Evil - Are there better mind protection spells then this? Between dominate, confusion, etc...
  • Death Ward
  • See Invisibility

Mind blank is better, but you can't cast that. I don't think MCvE helps vs confusion. It blocks control, not effects.

Someone, preferably more than one should definitely have See Invis.


Leonis wrote:
Scroll:
Globe of Invulnerability

One ring of counterspell and leonis' ring which can also do that - thoughts on these two spells?
Dispel Magic
Enervation

The problem with Globe is that it is fixed. If you are doing a scroll I would do greater sphere or Anti-Magic Sphere. AMS is probably better, at least once we have the melee guys down.

Leonis wrote:
We know Gimpy is going to focus on Leonis, so can we focus on him first? He has the ability to take Leonis out quickly. Plus if we focus on targets we have a chance of taking them out quickly.

I am still working on spells to cast during combat. So if there is something you guys think would be useful then let me know. I would like to disable our opponents.

There's a strong argument for taking down the melee guys down first. Since we can shut down the casters with an AMS. I definitely want at least one of our casters on counter spelling/interupting duty each round.

But a lot is going to depend on who we can go after and what the battlefield is like.

Definitely take a couple of greater dispells. How many spells of what level does Leonis get?
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PostSubject: Re: The final duel   Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:58 pm

Mind Blank - I could buy a scroll of that and cast it pre combat no?

What is anti-magic sphere or do you mean anti-magic field?

I dropped my latest character, and spells, in drop box.

Right now, starting at level 1
7/7/7/4/4/3 (3 of level 6).

I have 18,750 gp left over. If nobody has a better suggestion I was thinking of taking belt of Con +4
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PostSubject: Re: The final duel   Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:40 pm

Leonis wrote:
Mind Blank - I could buy a scroll of that and cast it pre combat no?

In theory, yes. In practice no.

It takes a 15th lvl caster to make one, there simply aren't that many around (half of them died in the Angel's campaign) and their time is going to be in heavy demand. Leonis simply isn't important or well enough known to have easy access to something like that.

Leonis wrote:
What is anti-magic sphere or do you mean anti-magic field?

AMF

Leonis wrote:
I dropped my latest character, and spells, in drop box.

Right now, starting at level 1
7/7/7/4/4/3 (3 of level 6).

I'll look it over once I get back to Philly.

Leonis wrote:
I have 18,750 gp left over. If nobody has a better suggestion I was thinking of taking belt of Con +4

There is a Ring of Delayed Doom with 3 charges (15k) that let you shrug off a number of debilitating conditions. Given the charges it wasn't really worth taking for the campaign, but it would be extremely useful in this situation.
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PostSubject: Re: The final duel   Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:23 pm

Leonis wrote:
I keep the following spells up 24/7, are they counted against the three effects?

  • Contingency
  • Mneumonic Enhancer
  • Anticipate Teleport
  • Bigbys Helpful hand

Yes. As John noted, they count against the three. So even your basic Greater Mage Armor will count against the three. Tyman is not a happy camper where this is concerned Smile

Quote :
Of the pre-combat casting:
  • Magic Circle Vs Evil - Are there better mind protection spells then this? Between dominate, confusion, etc...
  • Death Ward
  • See Invisibility


Scroll:
Globe of Invulnerability

One ring of counterspell and leonis' ring which can also do that - thoughts on these two spells?
Dispel Magic
Enervation

That looks like a decent list. It's hard to cover all the bases with such a limited number of options, so you'll have to make some tough choices. For example, do you do Dispel Magic or Greater Dispel Magic in the ring? You're more likely to get hit by a Dispel, but if you do take a Greater Dispel, the ring won't block it.

Quote :
Mind Blank - I could buy a scroll of that and cast it pre combat no?

The scrolls are limited to 6th level. The idea is to keep the combatants to options of their own power level and not have the casters walk in with a bunch of 8th and 9th level spells.

Quote :
What is anti-magic sphere or do you mean anti-magic field?

I'm pretty sure he means Antimagic Field.

Quote :
Right now, starting at level 1
7/7/7/4/4/3 (3 of level 6).

Actually, at this point you can cast 7/7/7/5/5/4.

Quote :
I have 18,750 gp left over. If nobody has a better suggestion I was thinking of taking belt of Con +4

I just responded to your email and suggested the Cloak of Resistance +5 (which costs you an additional 16k now, since you have a +3 cloak). The Belt (which overlaps the +1 to Con you're already getting as a transmuter) only nets you an extra 13 hp and a +1 to Fort saves. The Cloak's much more likely to save your ass.

Nameless wrote:
There is a Ring of Delayed Doom with 3 charges (15k) that let you shrug off a number of debilitating conditions. Given the charges it wasn't really worth taking for the campaign, but it would be extremely useful in this situation.

No, on that one (which is actually 45k).

And if anyone's still equipping their PCs, I'd like them to generally stick to standard PHB stuff. I'm doing that for the NPCs (they're almost completely equipped at this point and they don't have a single non-PHB item between the five of them), since I don't want this to be a "find the best item for a one-shot duel" treasure hunt.
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PostSubject: Re: The final duel   Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:27 pm

Admin wrote:

Actually, at this point you can cast 7/7/7/5/5/4.

Weird, i am not getting the same numbers as you.
12 spell caster levels
25 int

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PostSubject: Re: The final duel   Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:46 pm

Does Kelis's Air Barrier count as an active spell? It's not even supposed to count as a SU ability!

Does Kelis have any money to spend? ie, can she have the same GP total as the rest of the party?



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PostSubject: Re: The final duel   Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:47 pm

Admin wrote:
Nameless wrote:
There is a Ring of Delayed Doom with 3 charges (15k) that let you shrug off a number of debilitating conditions. Given the charges it wasn't really worth taking for the campaign, but it would be extremely useful in this situation.

No, on that one (which is actually 45k).

The full item is 45k, the 3 charges remaining is only 15k, but what ever.
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PostSubject: Re: The final duel   Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:48 pm

Leonis wrote:
Weird, i am not getting the same numbers as you.
12 spell caster levels
25 int

The 12th level caster has a base "spells per day" of 4/4/4/3/3/2

You get 1 extra transmutation spell at each level, making it 4+1/4+1/4+1/3+1/3+1/2+1

A 25 Int gives you 2 extra spells at levels 1-3, and 1 extra spell at levels 4-6.

So that makes it 4+1+2/4+1+2/4+1+2/3+1+1/3+1+1/2+1+1, or 7/7/7/5/5/4.

Maybe you were forgetting to apply the bonus spells for levels 4-6?

Either way, now you have three extra higher-level spells that you can prepare. Mazel tov!
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PostSubject: Re: The final duel   Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:01 am

Figured I'd just update the list of spells/potions/scrolls, esp. since I remembered something re. Kelis. Her Air Barrier counts against the three magical effects one can have up.

Also, neither of the spontaneous casters in the group know Heroism, so you'll probably have to go with Heroes' Feast (unless Leonis wants to blow five 2nd-level spells to cover the group).

Grabthar:
Spells - Magic Circle vs. Evil, Death Ward, Heroes' Feast (?)/Heroism/Greater Heroism
Potions/Scrolls - 2

Kara:
Spells - Heroes' Feast (?), Fly (?) + 1
Potions/Scrolls - 2

Kelis:
Spells - Air Barrier, True Seeing, Divine Power
Potions/Scrolls - 2

Leonis:
Spells - Heroes' Feast (?), Fly + 1
Potions/Scrolls - 2

Rowan:
Spells - Heroes' Feast (?) + 2
Potions/Scrolls - 2

Vulpingetorix:
Spells - Heroes' Feast (?) + 2

Suggestions?


Last edited by Admin on Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: The final duel   Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:06 am

I think Kelis might prepare a Heroes Feast for the group, but not eat any of it, so she can start the duel with: Air Barrier, True Sight, Divine Power (and try to take Typhon or the Naga out in Round 1).
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PostSubject: Re: The final duel   Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:11 am

Also, here's how the Fey Power will work for this fight. Instead of just boosting the piles of magic items you already have, I thought I'd go with something simpler but likely much more useful. To wit:

Once during the fight, each PC can reroll an already rolled d20 (after finding out whether the roll is successful or not). If the reroll is also unsuccessful, the ability is not used and can be reused later.

Alternatively, a PC can choose to automatically do full damage on a single one of their damage rolls versus one target. This decision must be made before rolling. Since it applies to only a single damage roll, it can be used for only one hit in a full attack. If used on an area effect, the PC chooses which one target takes the maximized damage.
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PostSubject: Re: The final duel   Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:13 am

Kelis wrote:
I think Kelis might prepare a Heroes Feast for the group, but not eat any of it, so she can start the duel with: Air Barrier, True Sight, Divine Power (and try to take Typhon or the Naga out in Round 1).

Good idea. I thought that having True Sight + Divine Power up (and Air Barrier is your best bet for third choice) would be the best option too. Not that I was about to recommend it unless you asked Smile
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PostSubject: Re: The final duel   Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:44 am

Admin wrote:

Good idea. I thought that having True Sight + Divine Power up (and Air Barrier is your best bet for third choice) would be the best option too. Not that I was about to recommend it unless you asked Smile
Kelis is a glass cannon. She'll be lucky to survive/get a single round of actions. She better make it count!

Does she have enough resources to buy anything?

And should we consider simply trying to take Irovetti out during the first round? There's no climax like an anticlimax.
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PostSubject: Re: The final duel   Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:06 am

Kelis wrote:
Kelis is a glass cannon. She'll be lucky to survive/get a single round of actions. She better make it count!

Heh! Most PCs are much better at dishing it out than taking it. And not to worry, the fact that this is being set up in an arena context means it's unlikely anyone'll be going down in a round. But we'll have to wait and see.

Quote :
Does she have enough resources to buy anything?

Ah - I forgot that I was going to bump her back up to the same wealth total as the other PCs. So she has a total of 160k like the others now. I think that's a good 40k more than she had spent on equipment thus far.

Quote :
And should we consider simply trying to take Irovetti out during the first round? There's no climax like an anticlimax.

Your call. He is the one you have the least detailed info on and you know that he got some boosts from the Red Queen (which is why he detects as fey), so it'll certainly be more difficult than dropping Tyman (squishy mage) or Hannis (lowest-level combatant in the duel).
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PostSubject: Re: The final duel   Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:36 am

Admin wrote:
Ah - I forgot that I was going to bump her back up to the same wealth total as the other PCs. So she has a total of 160k like the others now. I think that's a good 40k more than she had spent on equipment thus far.
Excellent! Got any suggestions? Is there something Kelis can get to help negate crits? A crit from Amina would ruin her day.
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PostSubject: Re: The final duel   Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:43 pm

Kelis wrote:
Excellent! Got any suggestions? Is there something Kelis can get to help negate crits? A crit from Amina would ruin her day.

The only thing that can negate crits is the Fortification ability on armor and Kelis is far better off using the Air Barrier (it's +8 to AC and allows her full +6 Dex, which is the same as a Mithral Chain Shirt +4, costing 16k even before you throw on Fortification), esp. considering that Fortification isn't a sure thing and she gets the 50% miss chance on ranged attacks vs. her.

As for suggestions, I'd definitely bump her Cloak of Resistance up to +5 (+9k). Then maybe bump her belt of Str/Dex +4 to Str/Dex/Con +4 (+24k). That would give her an additional 26 hp and another +2 to her Fort save, which is her weakest. That would let you drop the +2 Con ioun stone, which saves you another 8k, leaving you another 15k to spend. Or more like 12k, actually, since I took a look at her character sheet and her stuff currently totals about 123k. You should probably get one Ring of Counterspells (4k) to block off either a Dispel or a Greater Dispel, as you choose. With the 8k, you could get an Amulet of Natural Armor +2, which bumps your AC to 28 and gives you a little better a chance of not getting hit.
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